This might come our way!!!!!!!

B

Butter Cup

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The UK's tax collection agency is putting forth a proposal that all employers send employee paychecks to the government, after which the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax and pay the employees by bank transfer.


Full Story: http://www.cnbc.com/id/39265847


Wait till Pelosi and Obama get a hold of this :lookout:
 
Fuck that bullshit. I think after a few head government officials had "accidents" they might reconsider.
 
This would actually be an improvement.

Right now the responsibility of paying payroll taxes is put on the employer ( ie me) - basically its like working for the gov. for free. And if you fuck it up, its the biggest disaster/shit show to get out of ever.
 
Im not a fan of big government, I think Locke had the right ideas however, we as Americans tend to impulsively jump into situations when we see something bright and shiny that is new. Aka, a Politician who says all the right things, and has 0 experience to make him a legitimate leader like Obama for example.
 
As a former business owner this plan is ridiculous. In the US if you have enough employees the employer is required to pay the taxes of his employees weekly, and yes Arturo if it gets screwed up by even a penny it is difficult to sort out through the IRS. Wont even get into those horror stories. However handing employees paychecks over to the Government and then letting them decide what is an appropriate amount of tax is just insane.

In effect I guess they would be considered sub-contractors though (in the US anyways) so will that mean I no longer have to carry workers comp on them too? Or insurance? Hmm! Maybe this is a good idea from a owners perspective.
 
I'm guessing the key words here are "the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax"

So as an employer you check or profits would be sent to them also I would think, and for example if you made 100,000.00 after all expenses, and the government decides you can live on 50,000.00 would it take 50,000.00?
 
I dunno... Having been a business owner as well as having worked in the financial industry (accounting/auditing and some tax prep), this is a f&*%ing nightmare waiting to happen.

Just imagine your in the middle of a big production run and a glitch in the US gov't payroll happens (oh yeah!!!). EVERY employee comes to your office looking for an advance or takes time off to call the local US Payroll office b/c they gotta get paid.
Production slows, so your outbound supply shipments dry up and JIT inventory stops. Your customer calls and asking about the 2,000 water pump sleeve bearings and you gotta find a new contract b/c that guys found a new supplier.

Now, when some smart hacker comes in and steals a penny from every SSN, there's gonna be some big trouble!!!

Just say no to big gov't. Oh wait, it's too late - we've been "Obama-fied"....
 
That's why we eliminate the income tax, get rid of the IRS, and go with a national sales tax of 23%. Corporate gains taxes are gone, marriages taxes are gone, death taxes, property taxes, all those stupid little taxes are GONE. It stops penalizing people who are doing well and penalizes only people who spend above the poverty level. That's right. You don't pay ANY taxes with a voucher system until your family spends more than 12k in a year (for a family of 4). That means food, water, lodging, etc. The basics are covered. Sure, you can go out and buy a giant house that isn't necessary. Shit, you can even go get a Porsche or a BMW if you really wanted to, but its going to cost you. Hell, it already costs almost an extra 25% on average for most goods right now because every time a product gets sold/traded, there's a tax on it. If you eliminate those early transactional taxes, prices of goods drop. So, technically, the price of a Porsche or other nice car would go down by about 10% as cars are more heavily taxed due to tariffs and what not (average increase to the price of a car over its MSRP due to taxes is almost 35%). If we eliminate all these stupid taxes, not only will it save everyone money AND time (no more having to file and no more waiting on a check) but it also makes it cheaper to produce products here in America because there ARE NO CORPORATE INCOME TAXES! There are companies who used to be in America and moved their headquarters out because it's just too expensive to operate and those companies have an estimated 28 TRILLION dollars in cash that isn't being moved here to America because of all the stupid taxes and what not. Imagine if all those companies came back. $800 billion dollars for a stimulus package is a drop in the pond in comparison to that! Imagine 28 trillion bucks coming back over here in the next ten years. Now THAT'S an economy boost. A recent poll of those companies show that 60% of the businesses would do more sales in America and build more facilities if the sales tax is passed and the corporate taxes that cripple businesses are removed. The other 40% said that they would MOVE THEIR HEADQUARTERS back here if we did that. Our key to prosperity is the removal of the IRS.
 
Boondokk said:
That's why we eliminate the income tax, get rid of the IRS, and go with a national sales tax. Corporate gains taxes are gone, marriages taxes are gone, death taxes, property taxes, all those stupid little taxes are GONE. It stops penalizing people who are doing well and penalizes only people who spend above the poverty level. That's right. You don't pay ANY taxes with a voucher system until your family spends more than 12k in a year (for a family of 4). That means food, water, lodging, etc. The basics are covered. Sure, you can go out and buy a giant house that isn't necessary. Shit, you can even go get a Porsche or a BMW if you really wanted to, but its going to cost you. Hell, it already costs almost an extra 25% on average for most goods right now because every time a product gets sold/traded, there's a tax on it. If you eliminate those early transactional taxes, prices of goods drop. So, technically, the price of a Porsche or other nice car would go down by about 10% as cars are more heavily taxed due to tariffs and what not (average increase to the price of a car over its MSRP due to taxes is almost 35%). If we eliminate all these stupid taxes, not only will it save everyone money AND time (no more having to file and no more waiting on a check) but it also makes it cheaper to produce products here in America because there ARE NO CORPORATE INCOME TAXES! There are companies who used to be in America and moved their headquarters out because it's just too expensive to operate and those companies have an estimated 28 TRILLION dollars in cash that isn't being moved here to America because of all the stupid taxes and what not. Imagine if all those companies came back. $800 billion dollars for a stimulus package is a drop in the pond in comparison to that! Imagine 28 trillion bucks coming back over here in the next ten years. Now THAT'S an economy boost. A recent poll of those companies show that 60% of the businesses would do more sales in America and build more facilities if the sales tax is passed and the corporate taxes that cripple businesses are removed. The other 40% said that they would MOVE THEIR HEADQUARTERS back here if we did that. Our key to prosperity is the removal of the IRS.
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Thats a regressive/fix tax not a progressive one, even though some people may like it, governments don't make money off that.
That discourages people from purchasing meaning purchasing power is low. The majority are middle class citizen. I don't think they will squander their money on something that is ridiculously expensive or unnecessary to them even they may have more disposable income. How is the state itself or even towns and cities going to sustain itself without any sort of income? Municipal government make money basically from property tax and parking tickets. With a country that has a huge deficit eliminating all of that is not recommended.
 
It doesn't change in the intake of the country, fast. That's why the magic number is 23%. The country GAINS money, if anything, from businesses coming back and illegals purchasing things because they don't get a voucher. The government gets the same amount or else it wouldn't be an alternative. I'm not stupid. And since prices are going to stay almost the same, like I said earlier because there are already 25% boosts to goods prices built in TODAY due to taxes, the price actually goes down or stays the same. You don't see the boost, but its there. Every time the government raises taxes on businesses, they just raise the price of their goods. We foot the bill every time. It really doesn't make things THAT different for consumers, it makes things better for businesses that way people will have more jobs and more money.
 
i'm not talking about raising taxes, I'm just saying progressive tax allows to get more money than a fixed one right now.

Bring businesses back as in from china and mexico? I think that would vary, if you have strong unions and higher standard of living then i doubt it. They are stubborn and have their own personal goals. The corporate businesses may not still have an incentive to come back when they are tossing 2 dollars to each worker a day rather than 500 bucks. Plus you got to support their benefits, insurance costs where those countries don't have any regulations on that. Some businesses in U.S. thrive on illegals because salary is low. Not saying its a good thing but just saying.

In order for the regressive/fixed tax to work you need to do two things: Abolish NAFTA or at least exclude Mexico out of it and WTO (world trade organization that promotes less barriers to entry globally).For NAFTA basically they make stuff in Mexico ship it out to U.S and Canada with no tariffs. Really? As for WTO, for example, they ruled that Autopact was illegal in 2001 because asian car makers can't enter U.S/Canada, it was a monopoly basically for Ford/Mercury, GM/etc Chrysler/dodge. (we had a little thing going after WW2 to integrate our economies). Removal of Autopact allowed Honda, Toyota etc.. to enter the market. Now look which cars dominate our streets. They aren't even built here or U.S. They are built overseas and shipped here for almost no tariffs thanks to WTO. Michigan,Ohio state along with southern Ontario got ruined by that, that is why they call that region the rust belt. Who the fuck is WTO? If you get rid of NAFTA and give WTO the finger then your output/GDP would be higher, governments would be making money and then your consumer tax will be desired choice for everyone and a lot of jobs would return. But corporate guys love WTO/NAFTA and couldn't care less about the country's situation. Its clearly an exploit they need to fix. If that didn't make sense this should.

 
You forget how expensive it is to ship things here and warehouse costs and import tariffs. On many goods, it would be way cheaper to make them here, especially advanced goods with many manufacturing cycles. Sure, Barbie is cheaper to make overseas, but not expensive, complex goods. And since there would be no corporate taxes, businesses would headquarter here in order to avoid the taxes that other countries are stacking up to pay for ridiculous social programs that are not financially viable.

Oh, and most Toyotas and the like are made here in the US. That's how they get around the tariffs. Hyundai is here, too. BMW is in South Carolina if I'm not mistaken. Cars are actually a terrible object to use as an example because of how fucked up the government is when it comes to propping up businesses that deserve to fail.
 
I'm not saying there are 0 auto manufacturers in North America. They definitely have plants but its no where near the amount there are overseas in developing countries. We got 4 GM plant in a town not too far from here except they took 2 of them out. And apparently Ford builds most of their cars in Mexico. But Toyota/Hyundai are not an American based company. The kickbacks go to Japan (Toyota for example) and South korea for Hyundai. For that matter, most cars are built overseas and shipped here. Its much more easier to do that, than build here (for the most part). Not just cars, my father worked for IBM for 20 years as an electronic engineer then celestica came over and took over that plant, hiring immigrants (mostly browns to be precise) for 10-15 hours dollars (willing to work for that pay) when my father was making way more. Because he worked 31 yrs for IBM/Celestica he got his pension. My dad's friend ,on the other hand, only worked for IBM/Celestica 18 yrs combined and go NO pension. In essence, fucked for life. And the only reason why they basically laid my father off or in other words "retired" was because he was seen as a cost to them. Lets see relatively good salary, vacation pay, good benefits. Yeah "thanks for your service Greg been a pleasure." Since then, that Celestica plant that ships electronic stuff to Cisco finally shut down. There goes thousands of jobs. Where? Yep Mexico.

Bottom line, as long as we have these issues governments will not be getting enough money making it very attracting for them do a Progressive tax system. Politicians don't talk about this and try to avoid it. Instead they come up with all sorts of solution to the tax system to patch the issue not rectify. Not saying I like it. I don't like a progressive system at all. Some people worked hard for their success only to be taxed.
 
re-read the post above. I said there are some, not an optimal amount like there used to be. ASIDE from few plants here and there. And why is it only about cars?

HMMA currently provides employment for more than 2,700 people who are building Hyundai's 2011 Sonata sedan and 2010 Santa Fe sport utility vehicle (SUV) at the Hyundai Alabama plant.
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I'm sure Hyundai has other models than those two and where are THEY at? I can guess where. 2700 people? Wow. Compared to how many lost in the U.S and Canada in the last decade? The GDP doesn't go to U.S the output goes to South Korea. Those are multinational companies in your country. Yes it creates jobs but nothing compared to ones you lost.
I drive a 2004 Acura 1.7 EL that was made here in Canada the only model made here. The rest made in Japan shipped over here.

You just don't see the point i'm trying to make and it is much bigger than cars. Its the notion that corporate entities moving away from the two countries because our standard of living is higher than developing countries so ship all the work to poor countries and lets make a bigger profit (corporate america). This leads to lower GDP for U.S. which means less $$ forthe government. So politicians find new means to tax like the liberals are doing which is overtaxing. The only way you solve that is getting rid of NAFTA so both of our countries can claim their sovereignty back. And don't follow this WTO shit that open doors to cheap labor countries to ship their goods over with basically very slim tariffs. I've spend 4-5 years specializing in economics and global trading, I know this is a factor in the current tax system.

Its not rocket science and I think i've made my point
 
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