Iraq!

A

Asylum-Havoc

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Jul 14, 2009
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Alright... now before I hit something touchy... I just wanted to throw it out there, I'm all for pwning insurgents in Iraq, but I also kinda wanted to know where all my fellow clan-mates stand... I know a few of of you, if not the majority of the members I actually know so far, are/have been active duty. So whats up, what you guys think about the situation? ((BTW I'm horrid at politics, so don't try xD))
 
me (one of the few cdns) i think that the war is wrong, but i think the troops should get all sorts of support that they don't seem to be getting. Let me clarify that a bit, i think that the initial reason for that war is wrong, but i also think that those people deserve human rights like living without oppression.
 
Dude, its either them or you. Those coward bastards mortared my wife night and day for a whole year from hidden places. She lost 12 people there in Iraq that we both knew since basic. Fuckem.

Having said that, the civilians are different. But you cant tell who is friend or foe there. Kids with guns and bombs and its pathetic.

I could care less about the adults or even women, but children are innocent and I think extreme descretion should be used by the military when it comes to air strikes or bombing raids.
 
[quote1250828011=z242pilot]
me (one of the few cdns) i think that the war is wrong, but i think the troops should get all sorts of support that they don't seem to be getting. Let me clarify that a bit, i think that the initial reason for that war is wrong, but i also think that those people deserve human rights like living without oppression.
[/quote1250828011]

Cant have it both ways man.
 
i meant oppression from saddam.
Sheepdogs (military) is ok
Wolves (saddam, hitler, that guy who attacked sept 11 and hasn't been found? bin who?)
 
Nothing will change there.
They (majority) dont want change there.

We would have to suspend human rights, to bring human rights to these people.

One side of me says, level the place. Invade. Take over completely. Tell them - You had your chance. You fucked it up, now productive and enlightened humans will occupy this land. We've done it before.
Then another side says, let them be. Watch from this point on from afar. Set up bases in friendly territories around Iraq. Then go on, living our lives.
Whatever the scenario though, I support and respect the brave souls that have gone to, or are going to Iraq; whatever their reasons are.
 
Still in service so I don't have an opinion yet.

Now as a civilian, which I am not, I would probably say that we need to level the place. We need to keep politics out of it. We need to have complete and total control over the situation so we (the military) can right it. Trying to put rules on war is pointless and guarantees a loss. Exibit A: Vietnam Exibit B: Iraq (future). Now I am in no way saying that Vietnam vets did not try their best and do everything within their power to win but they, for the first time in history were governed and unable to accomplish their mission due to it. Who would be to blame. Politicians...Do they go to the front line? NO. Do they know the sacrifices we make? NO. DO they even care about us? NO. We are a ploy to get votes and a platform to stand on, not beside but on top of us. There are a few politicians who know what it is to serve. Actually serve not just be in service. One such man is George McGovern. Do a Google search on him.

“I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in.†- George McGovern

"It doesn't require any particular bravery to stand on the floor of the Senate and urge our boys in Vietnam to fight harder, and if this war mushrooms into a major conflict and a hundred thousand young Americans are killed, it won't be U.S. Senators who die. It will be American soldiers who are too young to qualify for the Senate." - George McGovern

This is what i would think if I were a civilian but alas I am not so pointless rant I guess.
 
I think they should've nuked this place 6 years ago instead of invading.

There's no point for us to be here. If you want to support the troops right now, call, write and email your congressmen and senators and tell them to get us out now. We're wasting the time of the soldiers, and the money of the American taxpayers now.

We've done our jobs, now send us home.
 
[quote1250893569=Space_Ace76]
6 years. Correct me if I am wrong, thats the longest war we have ever fought.
[/quote1250893569]

Vietnam 1959-1975
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War

Korean War 1950-Present
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_war

WWII 1939 - 1945
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war_2

American Revolutionary War 1775-1783
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_War

Our wars are not always quick but with our current force, technology and numbers it should be shorter than 6 years.

I read this after I was done and I sound like a dick. Note I am not trying to be a dick .
 
[quote1250896121=Deploymentking]

Our wars are not always quick but with our current force, technology and numbers it should be shorter than 6 years.

I read this after I was done and I sound like a dick. Note I am not trying to be a dick .
[/quote1250896121]

The "wars" in Afghanistan and Iraq WERE quick. The war in iraq essentially was 1 month long. Afghanistan was about 3 months long. This is no longer a conventional war which our technology and numbers are effective at. Hell look at the Gulf War. So really the last few conventional wars we've been in, we mopped the floor with the opposition.

But now we're in an occupation/peace keeping phase. A phase where hearts and minds are more important than kills. The typical COIN(counter insurgency) takes 10 years to be defeated through gaining the respect of the public. We're trying to install a new government to people who dont know what democracy is. Not to mention a new infrastructure while dealing with a culture which is very different from western ideals. And oh yah..On TWO fronts. Blowing up a military is easy. Rebuilding is the hard part and THATS why its taking so long.
 
[quote1250980227=BOT#00001]
[quote1250896121=Deploymentking]

Our wars are not always quick but with our current force, technology and numbers it should be shorter than 6 years.

I read this after I was done and I sound like a dick. Note I am not trying to be a dick .
[/quote1250896121]

The "wars" in Afghanistan and Iraq WERE quick. The war in iraq essentially was 1 month long. Afghanistan was about 3 months long. This is no longer a conventional war which our technology and numbers are effective at. Hell look at the Gulf War. So really the last few conventional wars we've been in, we mopped the floor with the opposition.

But now we're in an occupation/peace keeping phase. A phase where hearts and minds are more important than kills. The typical COIN(counter insurgency) takes 10 years to be defeated through gaining the respect of the public. We're trying to install a new government to people who dont know what democracy is. Not to mention a new infrastructure while dealing with a culture which is very different from western ideals. And oh yah..On TWO fronts. Blowing up a military is easy. Rebuilding is the hard part and THATS why its taking so long.
[/quote1250980227]

Hoah, to piggy back on that:

We are also working with a culture that is vastly different from the ideals and traditions that were are used to in the US. A US patrol in AFGHN cannot simply just walk threw a town shooting places up and demanding that leaders co-operate with coalition forces, we have to win the hearts and minds of the people to defeat the insurgency. That means believe it or not, we must be respectful towards the civilian population of both fronts, In order to gain their co-operation to root out terrorist cells, logistical support systems and all that jazz you don't get to learn about from your TV.

its very complicated and We will stick this one out, regardless of whatever big-wig smooth talking politician tells the American people.

War sucks, but this is much different than any war we have ever fought.

I will give you my real out-look on it, once I have been there and have come back, before that I have no swaying oppinion.
 
I mean i'm for the war in a way... part of me just says fuck them up, but it is true it's near another Vietnam were we are fighting someone elses war. True, they hit us for, and we retaliated, but we got what we needed didn't we? I commend -all- the people over there cause I know it has to suck some serious dick being stationed in a uber desert like that. I've never been in the military and don't understand all of it, but we should keep politics out of it, it keeps our people there for longer, and in the end, it makes the war look like another politcal fight.
 
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