In Game Name IBX_PK
Which Game? Battlefield 4
Which Server? BF4 [TBG] 60Hz | ALL BF4 CONQUEST + DLC | TBGCLAN.COM
Approximate Date/Time that you were banned Friday, Aug. 20, ca. 03:41
Admin that banned you (If you remember) Irishian88J & Howitzer
If possible, the reason that you might have got banned for https://www.tbgclan.com/threads/reporting-battlefield-4-player-ibx_pk.62857/#post-363547
tl;dr - mouzou
Any additional comments you would like to add? Yes. The action that was performed was a "slither" as the admin called it, I will be calling it a mouzou. They are the same thing. So, I am not sure which rule exactly the mouzou jump breaks. In the report there was no reason as to why other than the fact that the action was performed. The person who made the report mentioned "Speed hack. Sliding and running across the ground at a high speed." This is a vast misunderstanding of what the mouzou is. It is not a hack and can be performed consistently on an unmodified, vanilla game. The admins seemed to understand this although I am not 100% sure about that. If you want to test this you can just do it in your own game.
The server rules per the description are "Cheating/racism (chat filter)= banned". The relevant part in this statement is about cheating and as we have established previously the mouzou is not a cheat or hack in any form. I vaguely remember something about glitching/exploits? Unfortunately I don't have a screenshot of the rules from the all maps server and can no longer obtain it but if someone would be willing to provide one or just the transcript I will be more than happy to defend the mouzou. Anyway, the mouzou is neither a glitch nor an exploit, depending on the definition one uses. Using the definition from Wikipedia: "'Glitching' is the practice of players exploiting faults in a video game's programming to achieve tasks that give them an unfair advantage in the game, over NPC's or other players, such as running through walls or defying the game's physics." The mouzou does NOT grant an unfair advantage in the game over other players and it is not a fault in BF4's programming. In certain situations it MAY give one an advantage but it is heavily situation dependent. It gives an advantage in the same way a guy using an AEK has an advantage against a guy using a DMR in Op. Locker - the guy with the AEK will win the vast majority of engagements due to the DMR user's ignorance with choosing a proper loadout.
A mouzou grants you an advantage against a player that doesn't know about it, but truly skilled and professional players can expect it and counter it, and even novice players can counter it by pure chance, as it is a move which requires the user to fully commit. It also does not grant an UNFAIR advantage; since it can be performed in an unmodified and vanilla game every player has equal access to it. Saying it grants an unfair advantage is like saying the guy with the AEK has an unfair advantage over a DMR. Let's talk about a real glitch which does grant the user an unfair advantage in BF4; the one way wall located by E flag in Op. Locker. It grants an unfair advantage in 2 ways. The first is that it can only realistically be accessed by the Russian team as they are much closer to the "entrance". The second is that it can be shot through but not shot into, rendering the player inside of it more or less invincible. Yes, it can be done in an unmodified vanilla game, but it is team-locked and there is 0 counterplay. The guy inside is invulnerable to pretty much everything and there is no way to remove him from there. There is a lot of counterplay to a mouzou. The first is obvious - aim properly and kill the guy before he can get the mouzou off. Depending on the situation, it can be expected. For this you simply wait for them to mouzou around the corner and kill them when they appear. You only have a very small window in the mouzou where you can shoot and even in that window it can be difficult to aim at the target depending on the situation. The target can react, and kill you. It also provides next to no benefit in more than a 1vs2 and probably hurts you due to the commitment it requires. It is far from game breaking and in my and a few other skilled players' opinions adds an interesting layer of depth to a select amount of situations.
But is it an exploit? Again using the definition from Wikipedia: "Glitches in games should not be confused with exploits. Despite them both performing unintended actions, an exploit is not a programming error, but instead an oversight by the developers." Particularly an exploit relates to finding 1 overpowered strategy or another gameplay loophole, the latter of which isn't really relevant to multiplayer games. Given the facts that it is far from 1 meta-defining strategy as discussed previously and that it has survived many patches and multiple games it's unlikely that it's something the developers particularly care about fixing. It's almost guaranteed that it's on their radar due to the massive amount of complaints about it, the zouzou, and its close cousin the vouzou, and there have been 0 attempts (as far as I'm aware) to do anything about it. The zouzou jump in particular been a thing since the beginning of BF4. Overall it is treated in at least 2 games as more of a mechanic, even if it is unintended, rather than a straight exploit or glitch. The BF4DB admins agree with the stance that it is closer to a part of the game rather than an exploit or glitch, with a director, skulls, stating "We will never ban for these types of jumps" (source: https://bf4db.com/forum/thread/ban-glitch-jumps-7701). I understand that TBG is its own entity however and that it does not perfectly adhere to BF4DB's opinions 24/7. Although you guys do stream their service so perhaps this has some weight.
Another interesting thing I found while doing an in-depth search to find out why the mouzou is bannable is a conversation between the banning admin, Irishian88J, and Brice in the public TBG discord server. Brice asks whether or not "movement glitches" (naming mouzou, vouzou, and zouzou when prompted by Irishian) fall under what is considered a glitch by TBG. Irishian answered, "I don't think it's an issue." (source: https://imgur.com/a/IPGmWZR). I am well aware that the rules can and do change often, but this conversation took place roughly 1 month ago so I would imagine that it is still relevant, especially when the admin that banned me explicitly said it was allowed.
In conclusion the mouzou is not an overpowered mechanic. It is neither a glitch nor an exploit nor a cheat. At the very least, this is undeserving of a permanent ban, and if it is to be disallowed in the future it should be made more clear.
Which Game? Battlefield 4
Which Server? BF4 [TBG] 60Hz | ALL BF4 CONQUEST + DLC | TBGCLAN.COM
Approximate Date/Time that you were banned Friday, Aug. 20, ca. 03:41
Admin that banned you (If you remember) Irishian88J & Howitzer
If possible, the reason that you might have got banned for https://www.tbgclan.com/threads/reporting-battlefield-4-player-ibx_pk.62857/#post-363547
tl;dr - mouzou
Any additional comments you would like to add? Yes. The action that was performed was a "slither" as the admin called it, I will be calling it a mouzou. They are the same thing. So, I am not sure which rule exactly the mouzou jump breaks. In the report there was no reason as to why other than the fact that the action was performed. The person who made the report mentioned "Speed hack. Sliding and running across the ground at a high speed." This is a vast misunderstanding of what the mouzou is. It is not a hack and can be performed consistently on an unmodified, vanilla game. The admins seemed to understand this although I am not 100% sure about that. If you want to test this you can just do it in your own game.
The server rules per the description are "Cheating/racism (chat filter)= banned". The relevant part in this statement is about cheating and as we have established previously the mouzou is not a cheat or hack in any form. I vaguely remember something about glitching/exploits? Unfortunately I don't have a screenshot of the rules from the all maps server and can no longer obtain it but if someone would be willing to provide one or just the transcript I will be more than happy to defend the mouzou. Anyway, the mouzou is neither a glitch nor an exploit, depending on the definition one uses. Using the definition from Wikipedia: "'Glitching' is the practice of players exploiting faults in a video game's programming to achieve tasks that give them an unfair advantage in the game, over NPC's or other players, such as running through walls or defying the game's physics." The mouzou does NOT grant an unfair advantage in the game over other players and it is not a fault in BF4's programming. In certain situations it MAY give one an advantage but it is heavily situation dependent. It gives an advantage in the same way a guy using an AEK has an advantage against a guy using a DMR in Op. Locker - the guy with the AEK will win the vast majority of engagements due to the DMR user's ignorance with choosing a proper loadout.
A mouzou grants you an advantage against a player that doesn't know about it, but truly skilled and professional players can expect it and counter it, and even novice players can counter it by pure chance, as it is a move which requires the user to fully commit. It also does not grant an UNFAIR advantage; since it can be performed in an unmodified and vanilla game every player has equal access to it. Saying it grants an unfair advantage is like saying the guy with the AEK has an unfair advantage over a DMR. Let's talk about a real glitch which does grant the user an unfair advantage in BF4; the one way wall located by E flag in Op. Locker. It grants an unfair advantage in 2 ways. The first is that it can only realistically be accessed by the Russian team as they are much closer to the "entrance". The second is that it can be shot through but not shot into, rendering the player inside of it more or less invincible. Yes, it can be done in an unmodified vanilla game, but it is team-locked and there is 0 counterplay. The guy inside is invulnerable to pretty much everything and there is no way to remove him from there. There is a lot of counterplay to a mouzou. The first is obvious - aim properly and kill the guy before he can get the mouzou off. Depending on the situation, it can be expected. For this you simply wait for them to mouzou around the corner and kill them when they appear. You only have a very small window in the mouzou where you can shoot and even in that window it can be difficult to aim at the target depending on the situation. The target can react, and kill you. It also provides next to no benefit in more than a 1vs2 and probably hurts you due to the commitment it requires. It is far from game breaking and in my and a few other skilled players' opinions adds an interesting layer of depth to a select amount of situations.
But is it an exploit? Again using the definition from Wikipedia: "Glitches in games should not be confused with exploits. Despite them both performing unintended actions, an exploit is not a programming error, but instead an oversight by the developers." Particularly an exploit relates to finding 1 overpowered strategy or another gameplay loophole, the latter of which isn't really relevant to multiplayer games. Given the facts that it is far from 1 meta-defining strategy as discussed previously and that it has survived many patches and multiple games it's unlikely that it's something the developers particularly care about fixing. It's almost guaranteed that it's on their radar due to the massive amount of complaints about it, the zouzou, and its close cousin the vouzou, and there have been 0 attempts (as far as I'm aware) to do anything about it. The zouzou jump in particular been a thing since the beginning of BF4. Overall it is treated in at least 2 games as more of a mechanic, even if it is unintended, rather than a straight exploit or glitch. The BF4DB admins agree with the stance that it is closer to a part of the game rather than an exploit or glitch, with a director, skulls, stating "We will never ban for these types of jumps" (source: https://bf4db.com/forum/thread/ban-glitch-jumps-7701). I understand that TBG is its own entity however and that it does not perfectly adhere to BF4DB's opinions 24/7. Although you guys do stream their service so perhaps this has some weight.
Another interesting thing I found while doing an in-depth search to find out why the mouzou is bannable is a conversation between the banning admin, Irishian88J, and Brice in the public TBG discord server. Brice asks whether or not "movement glitches" (naming mouzou, vouzou, and zouzou when prompted by Irishian) fall under what is considered a glitch by TBG. Irishian answered, "I don't think it's an issue." (source: https://imgur.com/a/IPGmWZR). I am well aware that the rules can and do change often, but this conversation took place roughly 1 month ago so I would imagine that it is still relevant, especially when the admin that banned me explicitly said it was allowed.
In conclusion the mouzou is not an overpowered mechanic. It is neither a glitch nor an exploit nor a cheat. At the very least, this is undeserving of a permanent ban, and if it is to be disallowed in the future it should be made more clear.
