Wow, I literally don't even know where to start Bob. How any so called libertarian can have Obama in their top 5 is simply mind boggling. The government's primary duty of providing for the common defense is not a "war time" obligation, it is an all the time obligation. Coming from a strictly anti-war perspective, I don't really think the Republican field is gonna be for you, generally speaking we tend to have a somewhat broader definition of national interests and a much broader definition of justifiable. I really think your political leanings are much more inline with the ACLU and Amnesty International then they are with the American Republican party. As far as Gingrich's indiscretions, some of what you listed is inaccurate (his dozens of affairs was actually with one woman who married and is still married to) and most are very old. You're never going to find a candidate that is issue for issue exactly the same as you are. Cap and trade was one of Obama's big issues and Gingrich was 10+ years removed from congress when it passed a nearly party line vote (only 8 republicans voted for it). Also, the only thing linking 9/11 with Afghanistan was Bin Laden and the Taliban insisting on protecting him and offering him sanctuary. Suggesting that Afghanistan ws not justified does put your opinion in perspective. Anyhow, this thread is getting off topic, it's about Ron Paul's support for a traitor.

Also, Ron Paul is hurting Rand Paul's chances down the road, not helping. That's a big part of why Rand will not support some of his father's positions.

Lastly, Gingrich can secure the nomination if Santorum does the right thing and backs out of the race. I would be excited for a Romney/Gingrich Gingrich/Romney ticket, Paul will at best be a cabinet secretary and I doubt he would even accept that offer if made. Paul is not electable in a general election.

Many would do so for polarizing effect--4 more years of Obama would be hell but I'd at least hope for a few more true fiscal conservatives in both House & Senate. I don't care about party label so much as I care about their positions on domestic spending & foreign policy. Besides, the list was half for humor--I'd vote for Gary Johnson or write in either Dr. Paul (Rand is also a doctor) long before I'd vote for Obama. Really on that list is Justin Amash, Dennis Kucinich, Bob Barr, and a host of other candidates whose economic positions are at least more sensible. Vermin Supreme is the New Hampshire guy who wears a boot on his head, promises ponies for everyone, and gave a speech filled with dental puns.

Providing for the common defense is an all-the-time obligation, but I don't believe that our foreign interventions or foreign aid are providing for a common defense--rather they're used as excuses to spend in lieu of an actual defense. Brief shooting wars are one thing, but the neoconservative movement places a special emphasis on policing the world and intervening in the Middle East. For Afghanistan, I think the appropriate thing to do would be to invade in an attempt to trap & arrest Bin Laden. By putting so many boots on the ground, we made known our presence and our movements and severely limited out ability to actually approach him. I think our Afghanistan foray could have taken a couple of weeks if we decided against toppling the Taliban.

As for Gingrich, he was cheating on his first wife, Jackie, with Marianne. He then cheated on Marianne with Callista. If memory serves, interviews with his past ex-wives and former office staff had them revealing that Marianne & Callista were not his only indiscretions. If he would have done it once and stopped, I might be able to forgive but it's happened on official record at least twice. Further, he campaigned on wholly hypocritical statements. He's a keen politician and very charismatic to boot. I cannot reconcile his past statements about personally moral politicians with a wholesale lack of fidelity. He had no fidelity to his marriage oaths--so I doubt he'd take his other oaths or statements very seriously.

He's not remained out of D.C. or away from cameras in the decade since he resigned the Speakership & his seat. He supported it Cap & Trade before his resignation and had supported the individual mandate (the keystone to both Romney's and Obama's healthcare plans), either wholly ignorant of or wholly uncaring about the legal & economic ramifications. At least when it was done in Taxachusetts, the precedent only holds within the state. That's also my biggest qualm with Romney--he doesn't have a very conservative fiscal record and has many changes of opinion--just in time for presidential primaries.

I still think Bardley Manning should be Court Martialed for treason and the other charges--regardless of the overall right versus wrong, he broke military code and is subject to military law. But I also still think that Paul's point in praising him is Manning's part in Wikileaks--which has forced past government actions (right & wrong) into the light.

Gingrich would need to win most contests between Florida & Super Tuesday to have enough momentum to get the nomination. Even so, Romney's or Paul's 561 delegates will have a major impact as no other candidates can compete for them. If Romney wins most of those 561, he'll have at least as much momentum. I think it very likely that there will be a brokered convention in September. But I don't think Ron Paul is hurting Rand's future chances--both of them are far more fiscally conservative and anti-authoritarian than most of the GOP's current leaders. What Paul is doing is creating a voting bloc in later states and forcing a conversation about libertarians in the GOP & national election. If he runs 3rd Party, I think Rand would be harmed--but if the GOP seriously alienates his voters, that's 5-10% of Republicans and (according to Iowa & New Hampshire) many more Independents that are potentially lost in the general election. If neither Paul appears anywhere on the final ticket, I will register myself to the Libertarian Party.

Gingrich wasn't being hypocritical going after Bubba for Lewinsky while he was having an affair. Clinton was being prosecuted for perjury, not for diddling a fat twat in the oval office. Can you say "It depends on what your definition of "is" is". Cap and trade came 10+ years after Gingrich left congress, there is no way that can be laid at his feet, or Obamacare for that matter for the same reason. If Santorum backs out Gingrich will win most contests between Florida and Super Tuesday. Florida really isn't that important this year though, they were stripped of half their delegates for moving their primary date forward against party wishes. Again we are getting off topic. No presidential candidate who is seeking to be the nations leader should in any way imply that a traitor is a hero or a patriot. That is so far from appropriate that it calls into question not only his beliefs but his mental capacity. I'm all for his fiscal conservatism, impossibly silly zero tax rate aside. I don't care for the fed, and we need to spend less and shrink the federal government, but somebody who thinks Manning is a hero or a true patriot in any way is simply not a good enough human being to be president.

I'm taking his past statements since his retirement in support of what I think are bad policies. Clinton wasn't the only one being attacked--he was a serial mudslinger before his tenure as Minority Whip. I do not think Paul should have praised Manning, but I am not going to disqualify him from consideration for taking a stand on the side of government transparency. This isn't his only odd comment--he's made many but they're pretty much all ideologically consistent and none pandering.

What are the standings at right now for the GOP? I keep finding different ones.
If this one is true thing aren't looking to good for Paul....
2012 GOP Power Rankings | PoliticalDerby.com

Republican Party presidential primaries, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Right now no candidate has more than 23 delegates, it takes more than 1100 to secure the nomination at the convention. Gingrich has the biggest win by far and has gathered the most total votes, but it is VERY early. The national trend is closing the gap between Romney and Gingrich, Gallup has Romney at 30% and Gingrich at 25% which is a 1% drop for Romney and a 2% bump for Gringrich, Rasmussen has Romney at 30% and Gingrich at 27%. Most polls are similar to this and all are showing this trend. Super Tuesday is going to be the make or break for anyone left in the field. Paul hasn't really cleared the 15% hurdle in the national polls yet and is unlikely to do so. The more he talks the more people abandon him.

Last Updated: Jan. 22

23
Newt
Gingrich

19
Mitt
Romney

13
Rick
Santorum

3
Ron
Paul

2
Jon
Huntsman

1144 delegates needed to win nomination
2226
Delegates
remaining
State-by-State Totals

LOL Erik I had to Jack the other one.

Originally Posted by SFC RENNO

LOL Erik I had to Jack the other one.

Figured people would like it.